Discussing the Topics and Questions that are of Concern or Importance to all Christians.
Monday, September 3, 2007
Popular Culture and Christianity
Should a church or church group seek to become like the culture that it is attempting to influence and bring to Christ? How far is too far? What do you base your opinion on?
8 comments:
Anonymous
said...
It is important to determine what goals the ministry in question is trying to achieve. Is it results that will allow them to raise more funding? Is it to provide a place where non-Christians can be made to feel comfortable through familiar surroundings so that they can be exposed to the message of Jesus Christ? Is it just entertainment for Christians?
The answer to those questions determine whether the church or group has gone too far. If the number of conversions is just simply a way to raise more funds, then the goal is not biblical. If the goal is to entertain Christians with Christian content, then the goal is not biblical. But, if the goal is to introduce people to the gospel of Jesus Christ in a manner that agrees with the New Testament; then the goal is biblical.
Obviously, it is possible to cross the line. The line should be determined by whether the activities or music lead people into sin, or a loss of focus on the message of Jesus Christ. Jesus himself was rebuked for sitting with sinners and eating with them. He did not conform to the sinners; he engaged them. I believe that most of the church ministries are attempting to do the same thing, but the goal must be to engage the culture, and not mimic it.
The following is a copy of the one posted at www.allwashedup.blogspot.com to the question asked by the author of this blog at that place.
CC - The post is actually not my opinion, technically, though I pretty much agree with Staub's assessment. (Staub is an award-winning evangelical broadcaster, writer and speaker.)
As for your blog, as much as I believe enticing Lutherans to engage with you in your dialogue will be helpful, I'm afraid that I don't have the time to become a regular poster. But thank you very much for the invitation.
Regarding your questions, I will actually be publishing a book this fall on the very topic, which will be available through CrossTheology.com and the Cross Theology Foundation. For now, you'll have to content yourself wit the following:
*The answer is not something new.*
The failure of Christianity is not that we have clung too tightly to the past, but that we have divorced ourselves from it. To use the ancient analogy of the Church as the ship at whose helm is Christ, American Evangelicalism (and Lutheranism by and large right along with it) jumped off the boat a long time ago. A guy named Zwingli had a wooden barrel with a 4 hp motor attached, and the noise it made was simply too cool to resist. At the time, it looked like the wind was down and the ship wasn't moving, so we all piled in. Right now, we're sinking, and the ship is almost nowhere to be seen.
But it's not entirely bleak. There are actually a few life preservers that the captain tossed in the water, and they are attached to the ship. If we get out of the barrel and let him do the work of pulling us back in, there yet IS much to rejoice over.
How can I make such claims? I'm afraid their not my opinion at all. I hardly came up with it. It's simply the clear testimony of Scripture which also happens to be echoed by all the ancient fathers, as well as the confessors of the Reformation. It has nothing to do with tattoos and piercings. It has everything to do with what Jesus actually said.
If you're looking for "what is too far," in evangelism, we already went there long ago: forced decisions, false teaching winked at, then divorce, abortion, premarital petting, white lies, gossip, rejection of orthodoxy all together, and so on.
What we need is what the Word has to offer us. We need to hear the Word again ourselves before we can ever "take the plank out of the eyes of the lost." Our Lord said, "Do this," and then he said, "do this and do this." These things have not been the focus of evangelism for several hundred years. It's no wonder we make the pagans look like good people.
If you can't wait for my book, I'd invite you to take a gander at Martin Luther's Small Catechism. It's only about 30 pages long, and it's full of all sorts of stuff no one almost ever talks about, all of it straight out of the Bible.
I agree with you that it is not good to completely divorce ourselves from the past, and your statement that the answer is not to cling to every aspect of the past.
I do believe that we must not change what makes us a Christian to attempt to make ourselves attractive to the culture around us. Our witness of happiness,love for others, and contentedness should be the first thing noticed about us as Christians.
Our actions and attitudes speak louder than our words!
While it is (in my opinion) ok to meet someone were they are we also have to be careful to remember who it is we are representing and what our purpose would be for going - Paul the Apostle said it best:
1Co 9:19 For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more. 1Co 9:20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law; 1Co 9:21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law. 1Co 9:22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some. 1Co 9:23 And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.
No individual, church or church organization should ever "seek" to be like any culture for any reason.
In fact. . . No believer, church or church organization should be attempting to influence a "culture".
All "cultures" are the by product of the nature and expectations of man without God. A superficial entity of communal standards and beliefs that is ever changing from within and without. Influencing a culture is like blowing into the wind. It goes as it will with no consistant change by the efforts of a relitive few. Jesus did not seek to change or influence "cultures" It is people, soals, (individuals) that our creator wants ,not "cultures" Cultures have no soal. There are no "cultures" in heaven. So where does man get the idea that is what He wills for us to do???? Changing a "culture", even for the better doesn't insure anything in relationship to God. How could it????? It is people (individualy)that we should be trying to influence, as individuals,not as organizations,churches or cultures. Individuals and in a personal manner that will bring them from the "cultures" of this world and to a personal relationship with Christ Jesus.
1Co 9:19 For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more. 1Co 9:20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law; 1Co 9:21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law. 1Co 9:22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some. 1Co 9:23 And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.
The most significant word here is the word "I". Paul didn't prepare a group, organize force of influence to go out and redeem a "culture". He as an individual "One person" sought not to influence cultures but do the will of the one who sent him "That some might be saved".
Yes, to some extent Paul did engage them where they were, but just like Jesus, He sought not to change their culture but redeem them as individuals from it. But let's not lose sight of the proper perspective by Pauls saying; "I become all things" . Paul did not become a drunkard to witness to drunkards. Nor did he become a customer to witness to a prositute or a theif or homosexual that he might spread the gospel to them.
Christianity in it'self has become a popular culture, at least here in the United states. A widley accepted politicaly correct status symbol of conformity and compromize acceptable to dying world.
To assume for one second that any individual or group can engage on a long term basis any culture without themselves being influenced by it is the height of foolishness. Check the the OT. Samson, the Sameritans, the account of Sodom and Gamorah, The tribes of Isrial that mingled amung the Pagons and became as them.
The Lords work is done to and for individuals by individuals, not buy groups engaging groups at their respective cultureal simularities or differances.
True Theo- I sometimes tend to think in singular personal terms when the word church is mentioned- I do believe Paul's admonition was indeed to show an example to the indivduals who made up the Church at Corinth- well that is the church, but again as individuals and not changing the style of the body when it asssembles- your brother Larry
The church should be the one thing confronting and challenging the culture around it, not vice-versa. The church is, after all, the pocket of heaven on earth where God currently chooses to dwell, the advance colony of heaven, so to speak.
However, I think Christians should be involved in culture such as the creative arts, as creating beauty is something that is a very Christian thing to do. In fact, I would say it is demanded of us.
I posted about this recently at The Christian Call to Creative Culture.
8 comments:
It is important to determine what goals the ministry in question is trying to achieve. Is it results that will allow them to raise more funding? Is it to provide a place where non-Christians can be made to feel comfortable through familiar surroundings so that they can be exposed to the message of Jesus Christ? Is it just entertainment for Christians?
The answer to those questions determine whether the church or group has gone too far. If the number of conversions is just simply a way to raise more funds, then the goal is not biblical. If the goal is to entertain Christians with Christian content, then the goal is not biblical. But, if the goal is to introduce people to the gospel of Jesus Christ in a manner that agrees with the New Testament; then the goal is biblical.
Obviously, it is possible to cross the line. The line should be determined by whether the activities or music lead people into sin, or a loss of focus on the message of Jesus Christ. Jesus himself was rebuked for sitting with sinners and eating with them. He did not conform to the sinners; he engaged them. I believe that most of the church ministries are attempting to do the same thing, but the goal must be to engage the culture, and not mimic it.
The following is a copy of the one posted at www.allwashedup.blogspot.com to the question asked by the author of this blog at that place.
CC -
The post is actually not my opinion, technically, though I pretty much agree with Staub's assessment. (Staub is an award-winning evangelical broadcaster, writer and speaker.)
As for your blog, as much as I believe enticing Lutherans to engage with you in your dialogue will be helpful, I'm afraid that I don't have the time to become a regular poster. But thank you very much for the invitation.
Regarding your questions, I will actually be publishing a book this fall on the very topic, which will be available through CrossTheology.com and the Cross Theology Foundation. For now, you'll have to content yourself wit the following:
*The answer is not something new.*
The failure of Christianity is not that we have clung too tightly to the past, but that we have divorced ourselves from it. To use the ancient analogy of the Church as the ship at whose helm is Christ, American Evangelicalism (and Lutheranism by and large right along with it) jumped off the boat a long time ago. A guy named Zwingli had a wooden barrel with a 4 hp motor attached, and the noise it made was simply too cool to resist. At the time, it looked like the wind was down and the ship wasn't moving, so we all piled in. Right now, we're sinking, and the ship is almost nowhere to be seen.
But it's not entirely bleak. There are actually a few life preservers that the captain tossed in the water, and they are attached to the ship. If we get out of the barrel and let him do the work of pulling us back in, there yet IS much to rejoice over.
How can I make such claims? I'm afraid their not my opinion at all. I hardly came up with it. It's simply the clear testimony of Scripture which also happens to be echoed by all the ancient fathers, as well as the confessors of the Reformation. It has nothing to do with tattoos and piercings. It has everything to do with what Jesus actually said.
If you're looking for "what is too far," in evangelism, we already went there long ago: forced decisions, false teaching winked at, then divorce, abortion, premarital petting, white lies, gossip, rejection of orthodoxy all together, and so on.
What we need is what the Word has to offer us. We need to hear the Word again ourselves before we can ever "take the plank out of the eyes of the lost." Our Lord said, "Do this," and then he said, "do this and do this." These things have not been the focus of evangelism for several hundred years. It's no wonder we make the pagans look like good people.
If you can't wait for my book, I'd invite you to take a gander at Martin Luther's Small Catechism. It's only about 30 pages long, and it's full of all sorts of stuff no one almost ever talks about, all of it straight out of the Bible.
revfisk:
I agree with you that it is not good to completely divorce ourselves from the past, and your statement that the answer is not to cling to every aspect of the past.
I do believe that we must not change what makes us a Christian to attempt to make ourselves attractive to the culture around us. Our witness of happiness,love for others, and contentedness should be the first thing noticed about us as Christians.
Our actions and attitudes speak louder than our words!
While it is (in my opinion) ok to meet someone were they are we also have to be careful to remember who it is we are representing and what our purpose would be for going - Paul the Apostle said it best:
1Co 9:19 For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.
1Co 9:20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;
1Co 9:21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.
1Co 9:22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.
1Co 9:23 And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.
Many blessings on your day- brother Larry
No individual, church or church organization should ever "seek" to be like any culture for any reason.
In fact. . . No believer, church or church organization should be attempting to influence a "culture".
All "cultures" are the by product of the nature and expectations of man without God. A superficial entity of communal standards and beliefs that is ever changing from within and without. Influencing a culture is like blowing into the wind. It goes as it will with no consistant change by the efforts of a relitive few.
Jesus did not seek to change or influence "cultures"
It is people, soals, (individuals) that our creator wants ,not "cultures" Cultures have no soal. There are no "cultures" in heaven.
So where does man get the idea that is what He wills for us to do????
Changing a "culture", even for the better doesn't insure anything in relationship to God. How could it?????
It is people (individualy)that we should be trying to influence, as individuals,not as organizations,churches or cultures. Individuals and in a personal manner that will bring them from the "cultures" of this world and to a personal relationship with Christ Jesus.
1Co 9:19 For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.
1Co 9:20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;
1Co 9:21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.
1Co 9:22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.
1Co 9:23 And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.
The most significant word here is the word "I". Paul didn't prepare a group, organize force of influence to go out and redeem a "culture". He as an individual "One person" sought not to influence cultures but do the will of the one who sent him "That some might be saved".
Yes, to some extent Paul did engage them where they were, but just like Jesus, He sought not to change their culture but redeem them as individuals from it.
But let's not lose sight of the proper perspective by Pauls saying; "I become all things" .
Paul did not become a drunkard to witness to drunkards. Nor did he become a customer to witness to a prositute or a theif or homosexual that he might spread the gospel to them.
Christianity in it'self has become a popular culture, at least here in the United states. A widley accepted politicaly correct status symbol of conformity and compromize acceptable to dying world.
To assume for one second that any individual or group can engage on a long term basis any culture without themselves being influenced by it is the height of foolishness.
Check the the OT. Samson, the Sameritans, the account of Sodom and Gamorah, The tribes of Isrial that mingled amung the Pagons and became as them.
The Lords work is done to and for individuals by individuals, not buy groups engaging groups at their respective cultureal simularities or differances.
Sincerely His and yours
Cliff
True Theo- I sometimes tend to think in singular personal terms when the word church is mentioned- I do believe Paul's admonition was indeed to show an example to the indivduals who made up the Church at Corinth- well that is the church, but again as individuals and not changing the style of the body when it asssembles- your brother Larry
The church should be the one thing confronting and challenging the culture around it, not vice-versa. The church is, after all, the pocket of heaven on earth where God currently chooses to dwell, the advance colony of heaven, so to speak.
However, I think Christians should be involved in culture such as the creative arts, as creating beauty is something that is a very Christian thing to do. In fact, I would say it is demanded of us.
I posted about this recently at The Christian Call to Creative Culture.
Great work.
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